Chewing the Fat with Cannibal Corpse's Corpsegrinder

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Chewing the Fat with Cannibal Corpse's Corpsegrinder

The veteran death metallers stream their new album, 'Red Before Black,' and the iconic vocalist talks their controversial legacy and causing trouble for the last 30 years.

The first thing Corpsegrinder does after we sit down down and order a couple whiskies is to pull out his phone and start showing me photos of his kids. The mountainous, barrel-necked Cannibal Corpse vocalist still isn't entirely sure how to work Instagram, but he's gotten a firm enough grasp on it to keep his fans supplied with a steady stream of metal memes, tour snaps, and the odd family photo at Disney World. He keeps up a running commentary as he points out recent favorites with fingers the size of blood sausages. "This is me and Doyle, from Misfits," the 48-year-old tells me, scrolling past a photo of himself grinning next to the muscle-bound punk. "He's the best, I love him to death. This is the day we left for the shelter [during] Hurricane Irma. That's in my backyard. And this is me and my daughters in the shelter. They're the best."

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His daughters come up a lot during the course of our conversation, which takes place near Union Square in a ritzy hotel bar called Library of Distilled Spirits. After hearing from his publicist that Corpsegrinder—born George Fisher—is a whiskey drinker, I thought it'd be fun to take him someplace a little different than the usual dingy metal bars where he's spent the majority of his professional life, and showcase the more refined side of a man known best for screaming about murder. We stick out like sore thumbs amidst the gaggle of well-heeled business types; they crowd the rest of the bar but afford us a wide berth, which suits us just fine.

As it turns out, Fisher is much happier with a bracing shot of Jack or Jim than anything else (at least if his wife's not looking), but as we talk, he humors me and tries out a snifter of Bulleit bourbon, eyeing the amber liquid with only mild suspicion. Fisher is known for his good humor and unabashed love for nerdy pursuits like online role-playing games, so it didn't come as a surprise that my overall impression of him was infinitely more "goofy dad" than "death metal hellraiser." His two young kids are clearly the center of his universe—especially his precocious, anime-living eldest, who recently informed her legendary father, "Daddy, when I grow up, I'm gonna be a diva. I'm gonna be more famous than you ever were!"

Photo by Taji Ameen

Despite his viscera-splattered day job and lurid nom de guerre, Fisher comes across as an honest man who's perfectly content with simple pleasures. These are the things he loves, in roughly this order: his family, horror movies, death metal, country music, Disney World, video games (especially, famously, World of Warcraft), and cheap bourbon. For him, that's enough.

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Once he steps foot outside his familial abode, though, he's still "the guy from Cannibal Corpse," which has become a weighty (and often loaded) responsibility as the band's career stretches into its third decade. They're still controversial, undisputed kings of old school death metal, with over two million album sales under their belts and the kind of cultural capital that spans generations—after all, they've appeared in both Ace Ventura: Pet Detective and Adult Swim's animated metal juggernaut Dethklok, whose creator Brendan Small freely admitted to basing the beefy lead character Nathan Explosion on Corpsegrinder himself. They've also been yelled at by former Republican Presidential candidate Bob Dole, who in 1995 said that the band "undermined the character of the [American] nation." You can't pay for that kind of publicity.

Cannibal Corpse's excellent new album, Red Before Black (their 14th!) just came out via longtime collaborators Metal Blade Records. By now, the Florida icons have notched over two dozen releases—19 of which have featured Fisher's signature raspy, pile-driving death growls. He joined the band in 1995, replacing vocalist Chris Barnes (who went on to form Six Feet Under) in time to record 1996's Vile. With Barnes's departure came a subtle but important shift in the band's eye-poppingly graphic cover art and lyrical themes, which up until that point had been shockingly, violently misogynistic (and which had gotten their earlier albums banned in Germany, Russia, and Australia). This was the era of "Fucked With a Knife," "Entrails Ripped from a Virgin's Cunt," and "She Was Asking for It," The Fisher era ushered in a new kind of gore—still horror-inspired, still gratuitous, but, crucially, non-gendered. He still sings many of those early songs onstage, but now, as Fisher told me, "We kill everybody indiscriminately."

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He also seems genuinely perturbed about the lingering public perception of himself and his band as "maniacs." While at one point it may have behooved Cannibal Corpse to come across like blood-drunk wild men, the Baltimore-born, Florida-based father of two just isn't interested in cultivating any kind of "shocking" image anymore. He answers almost clumsily in his earnestness when pressed on certain controversial aspects of Cannibal Corpse's career (for example, how he feels about singing songs like "Stripped, Raped, and Strangled" onstage every night). He insists that he's not interested in politics, but then surprises me by launching into his own musings on the subject sans any prompting. Fisher is far more comfortable describing the band's tour bus stereo wars (he's a big old-school country fan; his bandmates, less so) or his experience playing the Gathering of the Juggalos back in 2014 than wading into the current political climate, and one gets the distinct impression that his fans appreciate his approach.

We hang out for a little over an hour, after which point he rushes off to Brooklyn to record a podcast. We made the most of it, and covered a lot of ground, flitting from Juggalos and dead babies to why he doesn't vote. Our conversation has been condensed for clarity; read on for a glimpse at the man behind the morbidity.

Noisey: Why it so important to you to keep things so positive on your Instagram?
George "Corpsegrinder" Fisher: I'm not going to get on Instagram to bitch about politics. In this day and age you're either with Trump or against Trump, you're either with Hillary or against her, you can't be in the middle, it's ridiculous to me. I might like tacos but I don't like pizza,; maybe I like pizza only with pepperoni but no other kind of pizza, but no, that's not allowed. In politics it seems like it's like that, and they're all so negative anyway. In Cannibal Corpse, most people want to paint us as being negative anyway, and we're not—we're just five guys in a band who're into horror movie stuff. We don't sing about politics; we might all have our own views, we probably all have our own religious views as well, but we just don't let that creep into this band. It's not about that. it's about horror movie stuff. You wanna talk about it on an individual basis, I'm not that well informed. I don't think that far into that kind of stuff.

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Years ago, we had problems; we'd get a lot of people boycotting us and whatnot, but I think in the end—trust me, I'm married, I have a beautiful wife, I understand where people think we're being insensitive to rape and things like that, we're not being insensitive to that. I can understand how people would think that we're glorifying it, but [same as when] movies have rape scenes in them—there are actual rapes that happen, unfortunately, in this world. We're not condoning any of that, obviously.

Most of that was happening during the Barnes era, right?
It's from the the Barnes era. But I'll defend him, and I don't think he was promoting rape. I mean really, we're not trying to promote anything being done criminally. We didn't invent murder and rape and death and torture; we didn't invent zombies, man. You know? We have a lot of songs about that, too. So I'm not trying to apologize for what we've written or what even Chris has written—he can defend his own lyrics—but I've seen those lyrics and I don't have a problem with it. I wouldn't want to stop singing them just because we're being insensitive. We're a metal band. Metal has stepped on the toes for a lot of people for a lot of different reasons, whether it's political or just [because] we don't look like the average person in society.

Do you worry about your daughters finding those songs?
Well, they know the band; they don't know all our song titles and whatnot, but I would think that if they were talking about all our songs to a grown up, like, 'My dad's in Cannibal Corpse!' if they were talking to anyone who knew who we were, it'd be someone who'd be like, 'Really? That is awesome!' You know? I mean, look, in the end, we had some of these songs, and hopefully we can just move past that, and people just realize that there is reality in horror. There are real things in this world that are in horror movies, and there are some terrible things happening in this world. We didn't invent them. we just want people to look at the music. and don't look at it as preachy. We have an abrasive name, it's very abrasive music. In this day and age I think sometimes people can be a little too sensitive depending on who it is.

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Speaking of horror—that's always been the biggest explanation for the violence in death metal. So many death metal lyrics are drawn from horror movies where terrible things happen, a lot of the time to women, so do you think should we be more upset at the people who are making these horror movies than those who are inspired by them?
You could look at a band picture and you immediately assume the lyrics [to be] their personality. I don't think metalheads do that, you know, but I think anybody outside of the music would look at our covers… Just listen to music. It might not be your cup of tea, but just think about someone picking up a guitar and playing the notes—it takes a certain degree of talent. We just pick horror movies because we're all fans of horror; we all choose subjects that are abrasive and make people uncomfortable. I think there are a lot of horror movie scenes that are very uncomfortable to watch, not even having to do with rape or anything, just like, people having their faces ripped off with pliers, or cutting their fingers in half with a knife. You watch horror movies to be uncomfortable, and I think that people put a face on this and think that we're pushing some agenda with it, and we're not.

Do you find that people tend to focus on what you were doing in the 90s instead of the new stuff? You used to be the poster children for evil!
That's probably why we're getting it now, but that's fine. Come at us, we've got thick skin at this point; we're going to defend what we do and say the same thing we've always said: we stay away from religion and politics and we don't know what the hoopla is. We like to think that the hoopla is about our music, and it's just people freaking out that we write great songs and that we play good shows. I think people think we create these album covers for controversy, but that's not the truth. The last album just says 'KILL' on it— there's no dead babies hanging, there's no torture cover with a bunch of bodies hanging, there's no corpse sex, none of that is there. It just says "KILL.".

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You don't really need to shock anyone anymore. You're Cannibal Corpse.
People are gonna pick and choose the part that they like and use that. Speaking of torture and rape, we have a song called "Orgasm Through Torture" where a woman bites a guy's cock off. He did something wrong and he's getting what he deserves. We kind of went away from all that, probably even more just zombie…

I read a lot of your lyrics for the last few records, and they're not really gendered like that anymore. Was that a conscious decision after Barnes left?
Yeah, they're not really gendered, I don't even know if that's really on purpose, you know, it's just easier. But also, just don't look at it like that; I'm not trying to say, "Fuck these bitches, we don't like women."No! Come on, our drummer has a daughter, he's married. Alex [Webster] is married. Rob [Barrett] is married. I have two daughters. I'm married; nobody messes with my kids. I respect my wife. You know, I get why people can say the things they say about us, but I would hope that they realize—just don't take every single thing that literal. Understand that it's really just coming from stupid horror movies, and yes, some of some of the lyrics we have are uncomfortable—especially in this day and age, people are more offended by it.

I don't have a problem singing our lyrics with two daughters at home. If something like that happened to them, I can't speak to that. If one of my daughters went to college and was raped or something, first off, rape songs wouldn't even be what I was thinking of. I'd be thinking of our other songs. Because I'd be going there to find who did it, and make them pay. But would I then want to play those songs on stage? I don't know. I'd have to cross that bridge. I can understand how some people would be like, "If it's happening with you and your daughters, you should feel that uncomfortable with everybody," and I don't have a problem with at least listening to people's opinions about it. I mean, we have a president that's really worried about the national anthem instead of how he's going to rebuild Puerto Rico and save lives. I'm not trying to say where I stand with him or with politics, but that, to me, there are more important things than just [our lyrics]. As far as we go, there are more important things than what we're singing about, which is just graphic stuff about horror movies. You can't not say that they're over the top. Have you watched the second Evil Dead? It's ridiculous, and it is hilarious.

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Some of those older horror movies definitely have a goofy aspect to them.
The first Evil Dead, when I first saw it, I was mortified. Petrified. I was afraid. I saw it at a friend's house with a friend who lived right across the street from me, one lane traffic, suburbs, and I just walked across the street looking around for the evil dead coming at me.

Was that your first horror movie?
The first ones were the ones my father liked, the older black and white ones from the 50s. Dracula. Those were the precursor to ones now like Sharknado.

Photo by Taji Ameen

So you grew up on the kind of kitschy, more tongue-in-cheek horror?
Yeah, all the old old horror movies. I go for the monster movies more than anything; I probably like them more than the gory movies later on. Now, I do watch a lot of Sci Fi Channel, and some of the movies are like, oh my goodness, they're so ridiculous! The acting is so awesome. I think that's part of how horror movies have evolved. There are some very serious horror movies, no nonsense, not screwing around. It depends on the person!

You're down for a little nonsense.
If you walk up to some guy on the street and gave him a lyric sheet from any song on our new album to read, some people might laugh, depending on who it is. Some people will be like, "Hey, that's Cannibal Corpse!" and some people might be mortified, like, 'Who writes this stuff? Who is that demented?" I think when you realize that we wrote the lyrics, that the band wrote the lyrics. That's when people start putting it as that person's voice, we're saying this to you, because there are a lot of bands out there whose music is about politics, fighting against injustice, some of it's about their religion. We're just into horror movies and they take it so literally! I don't understand!

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It really seems to bother you!
Well, they look at me like some maniac! Have you seen us live? I've yelled at some people on stage. I've said some really brutal stuff. "Whoever threw that I'll kill your fucking mother in front of you!" I've said some mean stuff! That used to really bother me when I was younger, people'd yell, and I'd go off. I'm too old for that now. If someone's gonna throw something and hit us, I can't say I wouldn't want to yell at them, but I don't want that on my tour. If any normal person walked into the bar and saw a big guy and his band shouting, "I'll kill your mother and mail her to head to you!" they might take that totally out of context. If you showed them a video of me being pissed at people throwing shit at me, then yeah, but if you show them a picture of me and my kids they'de be like, "That guy? That's him?"

So you feel like you get pigeonholed as this big scary angry dude.
It bothers me! I don't want people to think I'm the maniac that people think I am, think all of us are. We're five guys in a band, touring, living our dreams, playing metal. We could sing about politics, but we'd get into way more fights and arguments way more than we do now. We could be a Satanic evil band, you know, or a super religious band, you know, really getting both sides of the coin there. Metalheads don't give a fuck, we accept everybody.

Do you feel pressured to be more political now, because the world is in so much tumult?
No, I have my thoughts still. I mean, if most people knew some things, they would tell me to shut up in the first place. I've never voted in my life. I've never registered to vote, and I'm not going to. You know what, I pay my taxes. I work my ass off and I give my money to things that I don't agree with. To people taking trips to just do whatever they want to do, for the government to spend it however they fucking want. OK, then they would say, "You can change that by voting." No, because I'm just one vote. What if I don't agree with all they do? I'm legally bound to pay taxes, I have to do that, so I do. There's my contribution to politics. Other than that, leave me and my family alone, we're not hurting anybody. Just that simple. I don't need to be in it.

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I have my views on things I've seen, and if ever I was that compelled by any candidate, maybe I would register to vote and vote. At this point in time right now, no. I just want to go and play music and come home to my kids and my wife. I don't want to sit here and be in the picket line because they're being untreated fairly, then you got the other guys on the other side saying, 'No they're not.' You've always got the conservative people there, you always have the left-wing people there, and people in the middle, just trying to walk down the street and they can't, because there's people blocking the way.

That's where a lot of Cannibal Corpse fans end up, I think. It seems like a lot of people feel the way you do, like, "I just want to listen to records. Please leave me alone, it's hard enough."
I have friends and I have had some conversations with them, you know what I mean? Maybe some people wouldn't like my opinion about things. I obviously have opinions about things happening in the world, but for the most part, I'm just not going to be an activist. I definitely believe that there are people who are wrong, and I believe that there are people who have been wronged. There are people who have been crossed—I can tell you right now, metalheads. [When I was younger,] I got messed with, I had people crossing the street when I was walking. It's not as bad now, as metal's become more accepted in the general population. But still, there are still some people in some areas where we get the evil eye, or the bad look.

I mean, the West Memphis Three wasn't all that long ago.
Exactly, so, whatever the case, with all that I've said, I'll just sum it up as far as me. I have my opinions. I have been very adamant about my opinions, have had some really deep conversations with friends of mine and bands that look at things differently. But that's the difference—talks. In politics, everybody is yelling at everybody, "You're an asshole, you're an asshole." Nothing's ever getting done, and I don't care.

But don't start trying to pass laws banning music, 'cause then that's when I'm going to educate myself;, anyone who's against us, when it comes to that, you start trying to ban music in this country—I can't do anything about other countries—but here, if you're trying to take away my right, then there's going to be an issue. And I know at the same time, anyone that may be listening to this would go, "That might be happening here. If you don't stand up now." I'm sorry, I don't plan very well for the future, that's what my wife does. She's the brains, so go talk to her about it! I'm not going to worry about it now, you know?

Honestly, as someone who considers herself to be a very political person, Cannibal Corpse is not the band I look to for in-depth sociopolitical commentary .
I guess that's a good part of our popularity, is that you don't go in there worrying about listening to me preach that Hillary's right and Trump's wrong, or Trump's right and she's wrong, because we don't care about that. As far as our music goes, on stage, we're just singing about what we sing about. Hopefully everybody's having a good time, hopefully everybody gets to the show safe, leaves the show safe, and comes back for more.

I'm sure people appreciate that.
If people can escape with us, then, yeah, you know? And I wouldn't say don't listen to bands who are political, like Napalm Death is; there's definitely those bands, and that's good. That's what's in his heart, and he should do that. If I would make a band that's talking about politics, I would do a side band. That's not going to be in Cannibal. This whole world should just start thinking, "Just because you stand a little this way, or stand a little that way, that doesn't mean we can't all come together and try to compromise." Don't let politics and religion divide you. I don't want to be conspiracy-esque, but I'm going to say this and it's going to be conspiracy-esque, but it's what I think some people want. There are people who believe there's the Illuminati out there, I don't know about that…

Divide and conquer.
If you're all together, you're stronger. That's for metal, that's for people of all races, all genders, all religions, if we're all together; if we have differences, if we just don't see eye to eye, we're still all together, because we're all just people in the end. We should all be able to come together and make this world a better place—this country, at least, a better place.

Kim Kelly is an editor at Noisey; she's also on Twitter.