FYI.

This story is over 5 years old.

Music

Dead to a Dying World’s Sean Mehl and Overcoming Depression

The epic crust guitarist opens up about his ongoing struggle with mental health, the joys of fatherhood, and the magic of collaboration.

Mental illness is an invisible epidemic. According to the National Institute of Mental Health, approximately 6.7 percent of all adults had a major depressive episode in 2014, with adults between the ages of 18 and 25 having an occurrence of 9.3 percent. With such a high rate, it’s surprising that there isn’t more done to highlight these issues in modern society. Those of us who are involved in extreme metal wrestle with its strange dichotomy, wherein strength is valued yet we have entire subgenres where suicide is glamorized. We’ve explored this before when Andy from the band Caïna shared his thoughts on making music while coping with mental illness, yet it’s an ongoing conversation that needs to continue.

For Sean Mehl of Texan epic crust band Dead to a Dying World, his experiences with depression are neither a secret nor a source of shame. Instead, he shares openly with the goal of living in a world where hope and help are easier to find for those who struggle with mental health issues of any sort. While the band’s lyrical direction does not directly address mental illness, the band initially served as a vehicle for Sean to express his depression and eventually turned into one of his primary support systems. Dead to a Dying World’s self-titled debut album was meant to be Sean’s final statement to the world, yet with last year’s Litany (released on Gilead Media, Tofu Carnage Records, and Alerta Antifascista Records), the band grew into something stronger and more enduring as both a musical unit and as a family.

Advertisement

As a precursor to our discussion, Sean was quick to note that “this is my experience and there are an endless amount of other experiences that people can have, especially for individuals dealing with other structural issues like racism or sexism that can make mental health issues even worse,” making a point to address the fact that mental illness has no face, no class, and no gender. We called Sean up to discuss the making of Dead to a Dying World’s two albums while dealing with the looming threat of depression, his personal process of seeking help, and the importance of open conversation about mental illness.

Noisey: What was the impetus in forming Dead to a Dying World?
Sean Mehl: A lot of it really ties into the conversation that we’re having. I wanted to find a way to put what I was feeling and the things that I was struggling with into art. Dead to a Dying World is what that became for me. I was going through a really dark period at that time and really, I didn’t intend on there being anything after the first album I wrote for this band. I put a hundred percent of myself into it. In a lot of ways, that creative process made me feel like I could let go of some of my pain. In a way I kind of felt like that could be a goodbye, if that makes sense.

So you intended it to be a final statement?
Absolutely. That period of my life was particularly difficult and that was really just where I was at the time. Now it’s transformed to something so much more. It’s not “my thing” now, it’s something we’ve put equal time and equal contributions into It inspires me every day and it keeps me connected with amazing musicians who are friends and family to me. That really keeps me going now, but before when it really all began it was much deeper and much heavier than that and very personal to me.

Advertisement

Have you always struggled with depression, or was it something that was related to a specific event?
It was definitely triggered by events. Emotional turmoil and personal relationship issues always triggered it for me. It wasn’t until these first major episodes that I began to understand what I’d been struggling with. If I’m honest with myself, I’ve been struggling with this for as long as I can remember. I didn’t know what to call it and never really had a treatment for it because I didn’t have a name for it. I didn’t have anyone to spell it out for me. It took periods of crisis for me to realize what I’d been going through.

That’s not an uncommon narrative in a society where we don’t discuss mental health much
And it’s a difficult thing to discuss, even with my close friends. We don’t always know how to talk about it. We don’t know how to reach out to people. It’s a difficult thing.

There’s often a fear of burdening people when you admit to something so heavy.
That’s certainly something that I’ve been through several times. I’m lucky to have such amazing support. This band is amazing support. Having that close-knit family right there makes all the difference in the world.

When you’re in the grip of depression, are you able to function? It seems like a tremendous feat of endurance to put together a band and an album while struggling so deeply.
I think that as this was manifesting and I grew to understand what I was going through, I was at a point where I was still depressed but I was no longer in a state of crisis. I was able to function and I was able to ride the line of embracing my depression but I was also able to actively write music. It really drove me to convey my thoughts and feelings in a way that I really wanted to. At the time of it, I was dealing with all these things, but I was mostly able to function day to day.

Advertisement

There were periods after the first album was completed, though, when I wasn’t able to function at all. I was in school, and there were times where I wouldn’t leave my room for up to a month at a time. There were people who were there to support me, but that was a long dark hole to dig myself out of. It comes and goes, but it’s always something I’ll struggle with. It’s always something that’s in the back of my mind. When I do get dark, depressive episodes, there’s no way I’m going to pick up my guitar or do much of anything for myself, much less dedicate time and energy to something like creating music.

Obviously nobody wants to stay depressed, but was there an event or an interaction that helped you make the decision to meet and work through life with your depression?
It was a long and grueling process. It got much worse before I realized that I had the support that I needed with my friends and family and within myself to work at getting better. I mentioned before about music being my family. It’s really the way that it all transformed for me. While I had family support and friends who were there for me, it was really the process of engaging in it with other people and learning how I could be held up by other people if I needed to. These people who I met along the years who I’m thankful to play music with have been standing by whenever I needed support or whenever anybody else needed support. It gave me a lot of power and hope. At the worst, when I was going through a lot of suicidal ideation and had recently been hospitalized, my parents were there for me. They were huge in helping me get back on my feet.

Advertisement

I got to a point where I knew that I wanted to get better. I didn’t want to feel like I wanted to die all the time. I knew that I could get myself out of that if I wanted to get better. I definitely went through treatment. I’ve had periods of taking antidepressants and going to therapy, and all of that. So much about wanting to get better, ironically, is accepting the fact that maybe medication is the best thing that you can do for yourself. I think there’s a lot of internal shame that we give ourselves for needing medication, even if it’s just for a little while. A lot of wanting to get better and really working through all of that is coming to terms with what’s helpful and what isn’t.

I feel like the anti-medication stance is a strong sentiment. If somebody has a sickness of the mind, we tend to frown on treatment.
It’s something I ran into a lot. Every time I went through a crisis, I learned who I could lean on or who I could look to support. I was often surprised by the responses. Through that, I learned how to cope with criticisms of medication. I’d reach out to friends and get a lecture on the pharmaceutical industry. That’s not really helpful. I was vegan at the time and I had a professor tell me she concerned about my diet and asked if I was eating eggs. She basically told me, “Maybe you should eat eggs and meat.” I understand what she’s saying because Vitamin B is a big part of depression, but the bottom line is that it’s not what someone needs or wants to hear in a state of crisis.

Advertisement

A lot of the most well-intentioned commentary can be unintentionally harmful when folks haven’t been there themselves.
Absolutely. I’m not faulting anybody here for approaching situations like this. This is all a process that we have to engross ourselves in to understand how to approach these things. It’s difficult. It’s uncomfortable to talk about. A lot of the time you just don’t know what to say, from both ends of it. If you’re depressed or a friend or family member of somebody who is depressed, it’s hard. That’s why these conversations are so important.

You’re transparent about your depression now, but did you have a period where you censored your experiences with depression for the comfort of others?
Yes. A lot of times it was a very conscious decision, but there were plenty of times where it wasn’t. It’s especially heightened in an academic setting, or any other kind of setting where there’s this external pressure and expectation to perform. I was studying in school, and I tried to ride through it even though I couldn’t. Most schools had counseling services but I didn’t utilize them. It really came to a boiling point when I hit my crisis and I couldn’t ignore it anymore. Even though those crises were the worst things to go through in an unfathomably bad way, it was liberating to have it out there and to be able to have these conversations with myself and with other people. There was absolutely an internal reluctance to come outright and say ,“This is what I’m struggling with.”

Advertisement

If you’re sick in the hospital and there’s a physical ailment, it’s accepted if you can’t be part of the world or can’t tend to certain responsibilities. It’s another thing entirely to tell a teacher, “I can’t get out of bed because I’m suffering a depressive episode.” There’s this fear they’re going to laugh at you or invalidate your experience and tell you that you’re weak. No one said those things to me, but it’s the implication and the fear of the stigma behind mental health issues that really made me feel that way. I still feel it sometimes, the fear to have it all out there and discuss it with people.

Would you say you’re a perfectionist? Sometimes the desire to have everything in place makes everything harder.
Absolutely. That’s very astute. In my experience, that’s very much true. People that know me know that I’m very particular about things. I’m a perfectionist, as you said. Even in the music we write, everything is a complete thought. We don’t like to leave things undone. Beyond music, it’s certainly something that can make problems like depression worse. I’ve got anxiety and it gets worse when my depression gets worse, but I don’t struggle with it the way others do. A lot of the time they go hand in hand though, feeling that things aren’t perfect in the world or in my head and I wonder, “How do I do this?” In a way, music is where I calmed the chaos and was able to make something that felt like it was perfect in my eyes.

Advertisement

It’s that thrill of having accomplished something. So with the first record, you thought it was all you had in you—and then, somehow you released Litany last year. It’s another album and you’re farther in. What was your head like coming into another album as Dead to a Dying World? How did it feel to make a second album as part of a full group?
It took me a long time to even grasp the idea of this being something I was going to continue. It was never the intent. It wasn’t what I wanted to do. I was trying to put all of myself completely into something and have that be my statement. After that statement, with this expectation of doing more, it was kind of hard to deal with. As far as my depression, it’s always a rocky road and I’ve gone through good patches and bad patches. A lot of that did have to do with wondering how I would get myself into the mindset to continue with this. It was a good few years before we really got down to working on Litany. I think it helped greatly that we progressed musically together as a group. It was no longer my thing; it was something we all shared. It was a more free and open kind of creative process on Litany, whereas before I was really struggling with my depression. I was holed up writing by myself most of the time. That made the material tremendously better, and it really allowed me to free myself from those expectations of having to perform as a songwriter or anything like that.

Advertisement

Something that’s stood out to me, lyrically, is that in the midst of a pretty bleak album you’ve got the song “Eventide,” which feels like a triumph or anthem of strength at some points. Perhaps it’s more of my interpretation than your actual goal but with the last few lines, it feels so positive.
You’re right to read into it in that way. So much of that, when I listen back to it, has to do with the interplay between Mike and Heidi. The two of them have this striking chemistry and they feed off each other. It was challenging but it was a really rewarding process to make the vocals work on this album. We had high expectations but weren’t sure exactly what to expect because we did so many things that we hadn’t tried on the first album.

As part of your live show, that interplay is great to witness. Speaking of which, how did you manage to handle your European tour earlier this year? Travel can be fun, but it can also really mess with depression and anxiety.

It was amazing, actually. A lot of that has to do with the hospitality we received in Europe. It’s always good in the States as well, but everybody was so welcoming. We got a lot of help from Timo from Alerta Antifascista Records, who was part of the European pressing of Litany. He drove us around on tour. It took a huge load off our backs. Without someone like that, I wouldn’t have had a clue how to make the tour work, but he went the extra mile. As far as me personally, being on the road is kind of an unknown, especially if I’m having problems at the time. Still, on the tour in Europe I did fairly well.

However, our last west coast tour was a bit of a struggle for me. It’s always a bit difficult because in a band with seven people you’re constantly surrounded but in a van you can sit and feel really alone with your thoughts. That’s not always the best thing if you’re having problems with depression or any other kind of episode. The west coast tour was a challenge. To be frank, they’re all a challenge because of how much of a big unknown it is. I never know how I’ll feel so I just have to work to manage that and be honest with myself and understand how I’m feeling at that time so I can really take it in stride and know what to expect from myself.

Is there a set of preparations you make in your life for how to handle an episode? Are there safeguards?
I do, but it’s a very difficult thing to articulate. It’s not like there’s a certain thing that pulls me out. If I feel myself getting more depressed or feeling like things could descend to chaos, then I get honest with myself and recognize how I feel and it allows me to say “okay, I can manage this. I always do.” Even if I’m having good days, it’s still there and it’ll still be on my mind. It’s something to deal with and work through.

That’s an important piece. You’re at a point where you’re aware of this and you know it doesn’t end but it doesn’t have to be a death sentence. Aside from your band, what else in life gives you those little moments of joy?
I’m very fortunate now to have a family of my own. I have a loving and supportive partner and we have a two and a half year old boy. He means the absolute world to me. Just that really gives me so much driving force to stay on top of my depression. In the past I didn’t always have someone to care for or look after, and it was so much easier to slip back into that hole. Now, I can’t afford to let that happen. Not that those times don’t approach. In the same kind of way that this band has provided a very special sense of family for me, I have a special sort of loving family of my own and it motivates me every day.

As a father of a boy, how do you interact with the “strength” required of masculinity? It’s often viewed as weak or bad for men to discuss their feelings. Have you thought about how you’ll address this reality with your child?
It’s obviously not a conversation that’s happening soon at this age, but I think about this all the time. I think about the probability that he’ll struggle with these things as well. You mentioned the damaging portrayals and expectations of masculinity and they’re things that both my partner and I have considered. It’s important for him to understand. No time is really too early to start thinking and talking about these things because he’s already getting ideas of what it means to be a boy or to be masculine. He comes home from daycare and says things that reflect the idea of masculinity. We have to take a step back and process and really think about how we want to teach these things. We want to show him how it can be suffocating and damaging, but there are positive ways we can address it because he’s a perceptive, understanding person. Being open when we talk is important. I always wonder if I get in a dark, deep episode, what it would mean to him if he sees it. What would I do and how would we talk about it? I’m preparing for that possibility.

Since depression isn’t something that has a defined ending, what hope do you want to offer a reader who may be going through a dark patch? What do you wish someone had said to you when you were in your deepest episode?
It’s okay. It’s okay to be struggling with depression. It’s okay to have it as something that defines you. We struggle to make it something that doesn’t define us but I’ve embraced it and that’s what empowers me to manage it. I don’t want to say I’ve “conquered” it because it’s something that I’ll deal with for the rest of my life, but to really be okay with it when things feel hopeless is important. It’s okay. We have to tell ourselves that, because that’s what’s really going to let us learn to manage things on a personal and greater level as a society. It’s okay to struggle.

Ben Handelman is continuing the conversation on Twitter.