Ian Rubbish Calls Out the Margaret Thatcher Haters, from Morrissey to Billy Bragg

Of the dozens and dozens of books written on the subject of punk, one person always seems mysteriously absent: Ian Rubbish. The outspoken frontman of the legendary British band, the Bizzaros, was known for his relentlessly pissed off attitude towards the police, authority, and anyone else he disagreed with. But his unapologetic love of controversial Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher turned his audience off as well as the band who dissolved as a result. Pro-Thatcher songs like “Sweet Iron Lady” and “Maggie Thatcher” ultimately pushed Rubbish into punk rock obscurity. We talked to the often misunderstood frontman about… well, whatever we could. He’s not much for letting you get a word in.

So Ian, when people hear the name “Ian” in the context of punk—
Hang on, hang on, hang on. It’s polite usually to know your name, you know what I mean? Otherwise I don’t know who’s who. So who are you?

I’m Dan, I’m an editor at Noisey. Do you read VICE?
Absolutely, yeah. I read everything I can because what’s important is to be informed, right? Because the written word is not always the truth but at the same time, to know the difference between truth and what’s being said is part of the information. Because there’s information and there’s non-information and it all goes in the same drain, don’t it?

Where does VICE fall on that scale?
I feel that VICE has been truthful, really. Because they document an angle. It’s got no agenda but trying to sell what they do. So it’s really quite honest and I like that about VICE. I think the people responsbile for it have a clear view for what they want to do as opposed to a lot of other publications. We’re really quite lucky, Dan. In the States and in Britain and Europe, we get to do this in a free way and there’s not really limitations to it. As patriotic as it sounds, even though we’re all run by corporations, it still goes to note that we’ve got the freedom to fail.

So as I was saying, when people hear the name “Ian” in the context of punk, most people tend to think of Ian Mackaye. But do you think you’re the more notable Ian?
Well, you’ve got to do your research a bit better there. You’ve got to look at the originals even before any of us, you know? You’ve got to take a close look at Ian Dury. The true spirit of punk does not begin and end with London, 1977. It goes way before, it goes way after. It’s really something that’s a mindset. And Ian Dury really, because he’s so different from all that, I kind of credit him as the architect of it all. And laugh if you will but Ian McCulloch of Echo and the Bunnymen, he’s a very important part of it all. I don’t want to go through the list of all the Ians.

But when you think of names, we sort of apply our definitions of who is what later on. What’s more important really is who the people are themselves. So you could be called Ian. You could be called Barnaby or Bernie or Tony or Mikey or Billy or Renee or Lana or Claire or whatever and it’s just as valid. I envision a day in the future when nobody’s got names. You look at the animal world. They don’t give names to nobody. We apply names to your dog and your cat. But I don’t think they go about calling each other anything. They sort of recognize each other in the forest and the jungle and they go, “Oh, I know you. You off to get that coconut? Well off you go.”

Well I was trying to credit you as an innovator of—
I don’t want no credit. I don’t care about credit. I just want a coffee in the morning, little piece of chocolate, sunglasses, and shade by the beach and I’m fine.

How about this: Bad Brains are often noted as the first band to coin the phrase “Positive Mental Attitude” but I think once could argue that your song—
I think the idea of “coining” is a tricky thing to apply credit to. Coining implies that you invented something. I don’t think anyone’s invented anything. Even the idea of the Bad Brains could go way back before they even existed. I know what you’re getting at. Believe me, I’m not slagging you off. But positivity and negativity, we can agree, they’re the same thing. Energy is the same thing. But as far as I’m concerned, fantastic group that they are, I think we’re all in the Bad Brains. I think VICE is in the Bad Brains, I think, Dan, you’re in the Bad Brains. Because there ain’t no Bad Brains without the fans. And we’re all fans and we’re all sitting there in the audience.

What do you make of the trend of—
I don’t care about getting permission to be asked. I think the best way to ask questions is to make statements. All statements are questions, aren’t they?

Let me try to ask this as a statement. I want to know what you think of this trend of bands reuniting. And I’m talking about bands like Black Flag getting back together.
I think it’s fantastic. The thing about a group is, it’s people getting along with each other. So all the fights of the past, you look at each other and think, “Weren’t we silly back then? Having a row, about what?” I’m all for people getting together and having a good time. Because otherwise it’s too serious, isn’t it?

But what if it—
Look, look, I always believe in: to each their own! Their own, his own, whatever gender you are, let’s all get together. I’d like to see a reunion of all the world leaders. Get them all in a room and say, “Remember how silly we were back in 1979? Or 1983. All having a row. What were we fighting about? Let’s order some chocolate cake.”

Where would they do that, Coachella?
Oh wherever they like. I think they should pick Iceland. It’s right in the middle, isn’t it? Set up some chocolate cake and go look at rabbits. Have a bunch of rabbits or whatever they got up there, little pony horses. What are those, midget horses? What’ve they got up there? “Let’s go ride tiny horses and eat chocolate cake. What were were having a row about, you silly cow?”

So, you’re famously known as being one of the only musicians to publicly support the late Margaret Thatcher. Bands have been writing songs against her for the last 30 years. I was wondering if I could read you some of those lyrics and you tell me your thoughts.
All right.

NOFX once said:
Ronnie and Mags, Maggie and Ron
Let's get together, build a neutron bomb
Maggie and Ron, Ronnie and Mags
Let's go to Grenada, gonna fly our flags

I think they’ve done a disservice to themselves really because what they don’t realize is they’ve gone on advertising their friendship. They think they’re slagging them off but they don’t realize what they’ve done without thinking about it is celebrating them. Because here we are thinking about them. So really, they should mind their own business. They don’t know the friendship between the two. They’re believing the press about Ronnie and Mags. They might have a private friendship and it’s really none of their business. So don’t go nosing around because they didn’t write no song about them, did they?

Billy Bragg, a fellow Englishman said:
You privatize away what is ours, what is ours
You privatize away what is ours
You privatize away and then you make us pay
Yeah, we'll take it back some day, mark my words, mark my words

He also said that if it wasn’t for Margaret Thatcher, he wouldn’t be a socialist. What do you make of that?
He’s jealous. That’s jealousy.

Elvis Costello said, and this is quite mean:
Cos when they finally put you in the ground
They'll stand there laughing and tramp the dirt down

I think he was going through a phase. All artists go through it.

The Exploited said—
Oh I disagree. I don’t even want to hear the lyrics. I think they were also going through a phrase. Look, you can take the lyrics out of this. If you start shouting about hate, what you’re really doing is giving love because there ain’t no such thing as hate, is there? We’re all human beings. It’s humanity. You put the Exploited in a room with Maggie Thatcher and we’re all human beings. I don’t believe they’ve got true hate.

Morrissey, very vocal on her, said:
And people like you
Make me feel so old inside
Please die

I don’t think he meant that Maggie Thatcher. Might’ve been another one.

There’s a Bob Dylan song that was later covered by the Specials that said:
It's a shame the way she makes me scrub the floor
Now I ain't gonna work on Maggie's farm no more

Well, I think what they mean by that is they’re not gonna work on the farm, they’re gonna work another aspect of what she runs.

Like a promotion.
Right, it’s a promotion, exactly.

And lastly, Frank Turner, who once wrote a song called “Thatcher Fucked The Kids” said after her death that the protests at her funeral were "just really gross, actually. Really fucking immature." I’m wondering if maybe he had a change of heart.
It’s self-realization really because we’ve all got to promote peace, right? It’s OK to protest every once in a while as long as it’s done in a way that really doesn’t have a distasteful attitude. We all go through our personal journeys. And this person, at least he’s questioning himself. We’ve all done it. We’ve all made mistakes and that’s very mature of him. And had he not felt that way, that’s fine too. I believe in: live and let live. It’s all OK and it’s all forgiven in the end, that’s what I think.

Dan Ozzi liked the Bizzaros before they sold out. Follow him on Twitter - @danozzi