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"It's Confusing on Purpose": An Interview with Scottish Weirdos Young Fathers

The experimental trio talks race and their new album 'White Men Are Black Men Too.'

Photo by Andrew Maso

“We make Young Fathers music, that’s it.”

This is what vocalist Alloysious Massaquoi tells me when I ask him to define his band's music. It's a bold statement—claiming a band can define its own genre of music—but with the group’s latest LP White Men Are Black Men Too (which you can stream on Noisey) the genre-crossing UK experimental trio from Scotland truly does enter a world that is difficult to define. The record is a concoction that tastes of kraut, grime, experimental hip-hop, traditional pop, world music, and more. Honestly, trying to explain these guys sound like is exhausting—you just have to listen—so it seems like they have done their jobs as musicians. The 12-tracks collapse on one another, feeling chaotic and jagged and like you're forcing together pieces of a puzzle that don't necessarily fit. But this isn't a bad thing. The music demands your attention by acting like it doesn't belong. WMABMT is an excellent example of musicians being brave enough to take a photograph of the current musical landscape, rip it up, and paste it back together in the way that they want.

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Recently, the three guys—Massaquoi, 'G' Hastings, Kayus Bankole, all 27 years old—stopped by VICE’s office in Brooklyn to talk. During our 30-minute chat, we discussed what it meant to win the an award like the Mercury Prize (something they won last year over FKA twigs and Damon Albar), what they’re trying to accomplish on their tour in the States, and, yep, the name of the album itself.

Now that you’ve had time to sit on it for months, how do you view winning the Mercury Prize and its significance?
'G' Hastings: I think it’s tough, we all believed that we deserved it. For us, it doesn’t entail us anything that you don’t want. It’s the fact that we won an award, because I think if you start believing that it’s not really healthy. We’re not trying to be a new band, we’re not trying to be hip, we are not a pop band. It might take a while, but if we keep saying it then hopefully we can believe it.

Alloysious Massaquoi: For me, the experience of it, whenever we had time to look back in hindsight—hindsight’s always a wonderful thing. I only thought “oh yeah, we actually won this” when my mother’s friends back home were happy and proud, and were like, “oh god, you won that!” Because when you do something for so long, since you were 14, you’re not doing it for awards. You’re always doing it because you’re passionate and love what you do. So when that happens it’s definitely a great thing. We were so singular in the sense of focusing on the music and getting that, that was it. If there’s an award to win, it’d be the Mercury, you know? In a sense, I think acknowledgement from the industry, from people outside the realm of what you do, to say, “oh yeah, I’ve heard that stuff. I know the name.”

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Kayus Bankole: It doesn’t stop there. It’s nice to get credit. I don't think any of us don’t believe that there’s still more ears to be opened. That’s why we’re out here, so people listen.

Continued below.

So what is the scene like where you guys are from in Scotland?
Alloysious Massaquoi: There’s none. [Laughs.]

'G' Hastings: We don't care for the scene over there, if it is a scene. We’re involved in different scenes and take what we want. When someone has a stage, you get your three and a half minutes. For years, we’ve been meeting people in all different kinds of bands that make all different kinds of music. There’s no cultural, indie scene like that. It’s just what you do. I think that can benefit us, being outsiders, in a setting we are happy in.

It’s hard to define what genre your music is. How would you describe the music you make?
Alloysious Massaquoi: It’s that. It is what it is. I think you need other people to start copying us before people can label us and make it easier for us. I think that’s just it. It’s different from what anyone else is doing. Young Fathers music, that’s it. I think people acknowledge that if they can’t describe it. That’s all right, too. Just say you can’t describe it. Don’t say, you sound like this, because there are two black guys and a white guy. It’s not just an interracial group. It’s not true, you know, and it’s not right. So I think it’s all the associations that come with that, it gets annoying. It’s about taking the reigns and putting focus on where we think we should be put. There are different genres in there. Any song can become a pop song. Any genre.

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Let’s talk about the album title. You can’t call your record called White Men Are Black Men Too without having to explain the reasoning.
Alloysious Massaquoi: It means different things. The main thing is acknowledging difference. Acknowledging difference within people, culture, religions, within yourself. It’s getting across to people, and seeing that things aren’t black and white. It’s just everything in between. That’s the main focus of the album, putting that out there.

'G' Hastings: It’s such a confusing name on purpose. We’ve never had that bite. A lot of people wouldn’t react to us. We had different arrangements of words, but we asked people in their opinions what [the album name] meant to them. Some people took it, like, “what does that mean? What does the man look like? How is he portrayed? How is a white man portrayed? How is the black man portrayed?” Some people combatted against the black and white thing—the ethos. The kind of stereotype and putting people onto that, that’s our weapon, as well as us as a band. Why not confuse [people] on purpose? Make people think. You have to ask us about it. I would rather people talking about that than asking us our favorite color. It gives people an opportunity to talk. Even if they don’t like it, they’ll talk about why they don’t like it. That, for us, is just as good, because it’s a conversation that a lot of people are having.

How much of a flip side have you seen, people responding negatively?
Alloysious Massaquoi: It embodies how we think as a society. It’s based on experience. Everyone’s experience is different. It’s about how you can’t see things just as this, it’s like that. You can’t. That’s what’s being played for years and years. It becomes a thing where people believe that. It’s alarming to be exposed to things that are different. That difference becomes normalized.

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Kayus Bankole: That difference becomes not weird, not strange. Yeah, it’s alarming not to come through.

'G' Hastings: It’s a statement that’s very honest coming from where we come from, from Scotland. You want people to understand and get where you’re coming from. I think from the art, the videos, the songs, the whole aesthetic, is putting these things together and sort of mixing them for people. That’s what the album’s all about. Difference.

Alloysious Massaquoi: Us growing up in Scotland, you can’t see the runoff from everywhere else. There’s no satellite. You take everything in, and it’s kind of a confusing thing when you’re growing up in Scotland. Going back to the guys I grew up with, that’s my individual experience. That’s what the album’s about really. You can’t really speak for the rest of the world.

How do you feel these themes are reflected in the actual album?
'G' Hastings: There are points where you yourself and the people that you’re conversing with don’t know where your place is. It’s not black and white. To market it in this way, market it in that way, it’s that as well as the complexity and the conciseness of the words and making sure the words are strong. The title is strong; it’s strong enough to spark conversation. The words within the songs are there as well. It’s all encompassing of each other.

Kayus Bankole: You might look at it and see an angry album, which it’s not. It’s what we’re saying with the album title is, you can base statements like that and put it on a pop song. I think that’s better. If you’re just preaching to the choir, if you make angry songs for angry people, then you’re only gonna get those people. You’re not changing anyone because they’ve already changed. So for us, it’s about moving other worlds that people might not be used to. That changes the whole theory of what actually is human.

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You want to get as big as possible.
Alloysious Massaquoi: You should have that kind of attitude. It does go with popular culture, where everything is not as crystal clear as it’s painted out to be. It’s very important for us as a band to be in amongst that—for people to see that kind of diversity. It’s being exposed to all these unfamiliarities about things being distorted, wrong, wild. It will change that, I guess, it will be changed, and I think that’s important for culture. It would be interesting to see if those influences were getting played [on the radio] next to me. What would happen then? Would that change then? They’d be like, “do you know what? We need to step out, then. I want respect, now.” Then it’ll change the mentality.

What superstars are we talking about right now? [Laughs]
Alloysious Massaquoi: We all know, man. Let’s be honest. [Laughs]

'G' Hastings: It’s a conveyor belt of music.

Kayus Bankole: Then it will stop. Then the acts who actually come up, they’ll cash in. Those people who are coming up with those new things, new concepts, new ideas, they’ll be at the forefront. They’ll be the go to guys, girls, women, whatever. That’s what it’ll be. People will be like, “okay, I’m embracing my difference. I’m gonna think outside the box.” That’s normalized now. That stuff’s good. You’re gonna get more merit. Then you’re gonna see the stuff that’s straight down the line, average, mediocre. Maybe they’ll think, “OK, I have to start thinking again.” Companies will be saying, “OK, this isn’t selling.” The new business model will be “we need interesting stuff.” Then it’s an effort. Then it’s hard. You have to think about what you’re doing, push yourself. Then you think about that, you get to a point where there’s a better landscape for more interesting stuff. That excites me, it’s like, “what can you make then?” That’s pushing music. It’s pushing stuff to things we’ve never seen. Then socially, people’s minds stop breathing hate.

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'G' Hastings: It’s what Iggy Pop said: “Only ten percent of people are music lovers. Everybody listens to music, but only ten percent actually love music.” So the other people, it’s just noise. Rather than exclude most people, evolve it. Really, those are the people that buy music, it’s just noise to them or whatever. At the same time, if that noise was something that made them think or even say, “what’s that? Is that real?” Then you’re changing. You’re not just preaching to the ten percent of the music lovers. That will always be there. As everything that’s fed to the mass amount of people, I think that length is important. Pop culture is just as strong as, I see more people talking about pop culture than government policy.

Definitely. The most influential couple in the world is arguably Kanye West and Kim Kardashian, not Barack Obama and Michelle Obama. Are you guys actively thinking about this link when you’re writing or making music?
All: Nah.

'G' Hastings: When you’re writing, you just want it to be you. Purely what you want to do, purely organic. The way that our music is recorded, we play it quick. It’s really from the gut. It’s raw. We want everybody to hear that. It’s just honest, I think. You just want people to hear what you’ve got to say. Especially when you feel like it’s against what most people are thinking most of the time.

Alloysious Massaquoi: Not because you’re trying to do that. It’s just because you’re being you.

Kayus Bankole: It’s innate within us, to be like that.

Eric Sundermann is often confused but not on purpose. He's on Twitter.

Catch Young Fathers on tour:
Apr 10 Brooklyn, NY - Music Hall Of Williamsburg
Apr 11 Philadelphia, PA - Boot & Saddle
Apr 12 Washington, DC - Rock N Roll Hotel
Apr 14 Raleigh, NC - Kings
Apr 15 Atlanta, GA - Masquerade (Hell Stage)
Apr 16 New Orleans, LA - Republic
Apr 17 Houston, TX - Fitzgeralds
Apr 18 Dallas, TX - Trees
Apr 19 Austin, TX - Parish
Apr 21 Phoenix, AZ – Pub Rock
Apr 22 San Diego, CA - Casbah
Apr 24 Los Angeles, CA – The Echo
Apr 25 San Francisco, CA – The Independent
Apr 29 Portland, OR - Holocene
Apr 30 Vancouver, BC - Fortune Sound Club
May 01 Victoria, BC - Distrikt
May 02 Seattle, WA - Neumos
May 05 Boise, ID - Neurolux
May 06 Salt Lake City, UT - Urban Lounge
May 07 Denver, CO - Larimer Lounge
May 08 Lincoln, NE - Vega
May 09 Minneapolis, MN - 7th St Entry
May 10 Chicago, IL - Lincoln Hall
May 13 St. Louis, MO - Firebird
May 14 Nashville, TN - Exit In
May 15 - May 17 Gulf Shores, AL - Hangout Fest
May 20 Glasgow, UK - Glasgow Art School
May 21 Newcastle, UK - Riverside Club
May 22 Leeds, UK - Brudenell Social Club
May 23 Galloway, UK - Knockengorroch
May 25 Manchester, UK - Gorilla
May 26 Nottingham, UK - Rescue Rooms
May 27 Cardiff, UK - Clwb Ifrd Bach
May 28 London, UK - Koko
May 29 Brighton, UK - The Haunt
May 31 Southampton, UK - Engine Rooms
Jun 01 Glaucester, UK - Guildhall
Jun 02 Oxford, UK - Academy 2
Jun 03 Birmingham, UK - Hare & Hounds
Jun 04 Stoke-on-Trent, UK - Sugarmill
Jun 05 Norwich, UK Arts Centre
Jun 06 Sheffield, UK - 02 Academy 2
Jun 07 Liverpool, UK - Kazimier
Jun 09 Edinburgh, UK - Centre Hall