We Talked to Eugene Robinson and Jamie Stewart of SAL MINEO About the Actual Sal Mineo

Take ass-kicking, MMA 'n' jujitsu-destroying Adonis Eugene Robinson—chief provocateur of bludgeoning avant-metal iconoclasts Oxbow, worshipped author, journalist and poet, bit part actor in the Bill Cosby disaster Leonard Part 6 and invaluable VICE contributor—and hook him up with longtime bud and kindred spirit Jamie Stewart, the art-pop brainiac/wordsmith master behind Xiu Xiu, and only SAL MINEO could be spawned.

A schizoid experimental minimalist duo whose warped vision is as dank and doomy as the Los Angeles alley where iconic actor Sal Mineo was tragically hacked to death in 1976, the Robinson/Stewart union produces a sinister beast of spoken word histrionics and electronics abuse.

SAL MINEO, the twosome's eponymous debut, is inspired by and mirrors Mineo's ill-fated death and its bleak vision of the Oxbow front-man's L.A. hometown. Robinson channels the once-successful-turned-has been actor, psychotically crooning, squawking, whispering and howling an ostensible death spiral while Stewart's synths clatter, crack, squeal and streak through twenty-three bat-shit, yet mesmerizing, noise-driven, poetic vignettes.

We caught up with the jovial men behind SAL MINEO to talk the real Sal Mineo, The Thin Black Duke, a new Xiu Xiu record, and in a shocker. Robinson revealing that he did once receive a big fat check from Black Flag's Greg Ginn for an Oxbow record the alleged SST Records' sue-drunk swindler released.

Noisey: How are you guys?
Robinson: Not too bad at all…
Stewart: …doin' all right.
Robinson: That's actually a lie but, you know, for the purposes of this discussion (laughs), it'll work.

Why's that? What's bothering you?
Robinson: Life is full of miseries and indignities. You should know that.

So, how long have you two known each other?
Robinson: Known each other? I don't know (laughing)…
Stewart: Eight or nine years?
Robinson: I would have said since the Nineties because I'm dating it back to the IBOPA at the Cocodrie (in San Francisco).
Stewart: I don't think we met (there); that was what made me a fan of Oxbow. I don't know if we talked, though.
Robinson: No, we did not talk but that was the first time I set eyes on you (laughing).
Stewart: Yeah, yeah.

You hit it off right away? (Laughing)
Stewart: No, Eugene hated that band!
Robinson: It started with the name; I really didn't like the name. Hate is a strong word. I don't think I hated them. It was actually your dad who hated them more than I did, if I'm remembering the story correctly.
Stewart: (Laughing).

Jamie's dad hated IBOPA?
Robinson: Yeah,his dad hated them. It was a certain type of feel good music, maybe with a lot of horns that I tend to like but it was just, I don't know…
Stewart: I can say with very little shame—and with total accuracy—that I'm quite sure we sucked that night, so…I do not hold any hate disguised as indifference, nor have I ever.
Robinson:(Laughing).

So it started as a somewhat contentious partnership.
Stewart: Well, actually, the first time we met and worked together, it was anything but contentious. After that I had been an Oxbow fan immediately and saw them play several times and when I saw Niko (Wenner) and Eugene play an acoustic show in Seattle, which was, to date, one of the best shows I've ever seen in my life. I then asked Eugene if he'd be kind enough to sing on a Xiu Xiu song, which he very sweetly obliged to doing it. It took about a year to get it together after we actually talked about it but he showed up at my apartment quite late at night, had me turn up the headphones so loud that even though I was in the other room—and he was in the kitchen and the kitchen door was closed—I could hear the headphones through the door.

Robinson:(Laughing).
Stewart (to Robinson): You did two astoundingly terrifying vocal takes that I have no idea what my next door neighbor thought because this was probably at like 11:30PM. Then we shook hands and he split and we've been in touch since.

Do you live close to one another now?
Stewart: We used to.
Robinson: Yeah, when he was in Oaklandbut Los Angeles is bit far away. You know, when neighbors hear noises like that coming from your apartment, they tend not to complain I've discovered.
Stewart: Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't!
Robinson: (Laughing) Maybe later you can complain but not in the short term. Or move quick.

Where did you record the SAL MINEO record? If you recorded that an apartment, it may cause a bit of a ruckus.
Robinson: No, no. Those vocals were done in an actual, real, official studio. I'm still guessing that maybe this studio wasn't used to having those types of sounds coming out of it but it was a real studio.

Did you record together or is SAL MINEO one of those projects done long distance style where you email each other music and lyrics then it's all spliced together?
Stewart: Yeah, it was like that—it goes all through the mail. At the time, I was living against my will in North Carolina so I was just emailing stuff to Eugene.

Why were you "living against your will?"
(Burst of laughter)

Was someone holding you hostage or something?
Stewart: The answer shall just be a trio of cackling.
Robinson: (Laughing).

Then how did the SAL MINEO concept form for you guys? Had you always talked about collaborating?
Robinson: I think we wanted to work on something and Jamie had said this really clever thing. He said "Why don't we do like eight or so tunes," which again helped me frame my mind around a certain set of lyrics and certain kind of idea. Then after about a month or so, he said "I got a better idea. I don't know if you'll be into but I am going to send you instead 23 songs or 33 songs—some incredibly large number of songs—airing in length from thirty seconds to three minutes. I hope you're into it." In the spirit of artistic collaboration, I recognized fully for what it was, which was a challenge to end all challenges. So I was more than game for it. Out of the ones Jamie sent me, I only failed to admit to defeat in the face of one of the songs but all of the others had lyrics perfectly sliced and diced, re-slided, planned and sung in short order. It was probably one of the coolest things I've ever done, I think.

Eugene, did you approach the lyrics any differently than, say, you do for Oxbow?
Robinson: Well, uh, no (laughs). I'm following having ways dictum of writing what I know. I guess writing what I know that's shot-gunning myself—but maybe after the shot-gunning part. But I was writing what I know and the difference is Oxbow is a long gestation period typically—five, or six years between records so the records tend to be five, six years away from my actual experience. But this (SAL MINEO) had a much faster cycle in terms of the lyrics being a reflection of what's happening in my mind—this is much more of a current news situation. For me, writing is writing. I can sit at the computer, at the typewriter or with a piece of paper with a pen and not stop until I'm exhausted. This was no different.

Xiu Xiu is way obviously way different aesthetically than SAL MINEO. Jamie, how did you go about creating the musical approach? It sounds like it was born from improv.
Stewart: I would certainly agree with you on that it was different from Xiu Xiu stuff and, for my own sanity, I really needed it to be. At the time that I was working on the SAL MINEO stuff, I was working on an incredibly difficult Xiu Xiu record and I thought if I continued to approach music in that way, I was gonna have to cut both of my hands off. I did it as much as possible—or attempted to do as much as possible—with as little overthought as I could muster, which for me is not really easy. I try to have it be as below the neck as possible.

Over the course of about two months after I finish doing regular Xiu Xiu stuff—usually about midnight and usually three or four drinks into the evening with grabbing any collection of things that made horrible sounds and start plugging them into each other—and in a classic sense—and forgive the douchebaggery of this, I attempted to make something as experimental as possible by doing actual experiments. Not in an experimental genre way but actually plugging things into each which I had not plugged into or juxtaposing sounds which I had not juxtaposed before to see how it would turn out. It largely turned out (to be) a coping mechanism for me and it ended up being one of the most enjoyable music experiences I've ever had working on it and was very out of control the entire time, which since has become a more regularized part of my everyday writing process. I've learned a whole lot from working this record.

Were you channeling any musicians with the sounds you made on the record?
Stewart: I'm quite sure unconsciously I was. I think maybe more just channeling ideas that other musicians have given me and going for it as opposed to thinking about going for it.

Oxbow and Xiu Xiu are band situations. How have you adapted to SAL MINEO's minimal voice/electronics format?
Robinson: I think both of us have had the experience of stripping it down as far as it goes. I've seen Jamie onstage alone, Jamie versus 600 people and he's held it down. I've been touring on books now for five years and this is me onstage with not even a book, actually—just a microphone. Unless the entire audience is going to physically attack you, I think it's a manageable challenge.

What was the genesis behind SAL MINEO as the band name?
Robinson: I think I suggested it and it just had everything to do with the deep and damp holes that are very frequently on the outside of any kind of meager success, at least determined by, you know, the shit machine they call…
Stewart: (Laughing) …
Robinson: …America.The quote that kicked it off was one that I read that, Sal and his family, who strangely enough has actually contacted me, post facto, and just were excited that we remembered him, and regaled me with stories about his time in Mamaroneck, New York near The Bronx. It was pretty shocking and amazing and I actually don't think I even told Jamie that maybe…
Stewart:…I didn't know that. That's amazing…
Robinson: …because I've forgotten so I got some great stories. One of his quotes was "One day the phone didn't stop ringing and then the next day I couldn't get it to start ringing." It happens a lot. I'm a journalist and I was writing an article today about Jobriath, the glam rocker guy, the "American Bowie," and the guy was like "This is the best record ever!" and not even three years later (it was like) "Who?" It's funny. This happens in micro, of course, in your lives. People you know, don't remember, you don't remember, memory is transient.

Were you always a fan of his films and of the man himself, being somewhat of a tragic hero?
Robinson: I wouldn't have done it if I didn't have a high appreciation for that guy's work. But I also probably wouldn't have done it had he not been stabbed to death in an alley in Los Angeles. So, we didn't call it "Tab Hunter." (Laughing).
Stewart: (Laughing).

The record is quite dark and so was Mineo's end, tragically stabbed to death in the city where you live. Does it all tie together in your mind?
Robinson: That would be for you to say and you just said it.

You have a gig coming up at Hopscotch Music Festival coming and few other ones. Has SAL MINEO played live yet?
Stewart: We did a European tour earlier this year.

How did that go?
Stewart: Surprisingly well.

Why surprising?
Stewart: We went before we had a record out and that could always be a risky process. But the turnouts were real good and it was a true pleasure. Eugene has been one of my favorite singers for fifteen years and it was a real pleasure to get to play behind him…
Robinson:…and it's always kind of a difficult proposition when you're playing stuff that people don't know under the best of circumstances. A lot of times if you're playing to, you know, cooperative audiences (laughing), you can just turn up the volume but there is a nuance and a dynamic to this type of music (SAL MINEO) which made that a less desirable approach for us. Given that, I think things went really well. In terms of people extending to us willingness or ability to listen to and process new things, at least new in terms as why they would have been there in the first place, new from an Oxbow perspective and maybe new from a Xiu Xiu perspective.

Will SAL MINEO play more shows beyond these upcoming dates?
Robinson: That's typically for the world to tell us. We had not been actively or aggressively pursuing it as far as I know it but we have not opposed it. At least personally, I've found I am much better going places I'm wanted than (to) places I'm not wanted.

That said, will SAL MINEO even exist beyond this record and tour?
Robinson: What's great about art and the creation of artifacts is that I can confidently say that SAL MINEO will exist forever (laughing)…
Stewart: (Laughing)
Robinson: …and that record will outlive me. You'll be able to buy it at swap meet thirty years from now and I probably won't be walking around thirty years from now, so…

Well, you could be. Living another thirty years is not out of the realm of possibility for you.
Robinson: You're right.I'm trying to live right. I could be.

What else do you guys have coming up besides SAL MINEO. New Xiu Xiu? New Oxbow?
Stewart: I've got a record of Nina Simone covers that comes out this fall and then a regular new Xiu Xiu record in February and a record of kind of American religious folk songs from the 1800's that comes out, I think, on Record Store Day. I just finished doing some music for (laughs)…it was so Arty with a capital A of dance beats that it bordered on hilarious.
Robinson: Oxbow goes into the studio to record The Thin Black Duke, finally now. Jack White has finished his record so we don't get bumped by our producer anymore. We do that in November. Then I have a record coming out in September called Stranger by Starlight, then Leisure High comes out in this winter and that's with me and Bevin Kelley from Blectum From Blechdom. I then go out on tour with L'Enfance Rouge for about ten days at the end of November and into December on a release called The First Will And Testament. I'm also in a movie in which I play a preacher.

What about Black Face with Black Flag/FLAG bassist Chuck Dukowski? Is that happening?
Robinson: (Laughs) Chuck bailed on it. Tom Dobrov the drummer, actually after months and months of not letting it die, convinced me we should at least finish a record because the stuff was so cool. Now, given the swelter of Black Flag-inspired lawsuitery, it was probably best that we dumped the idea of using Dukowski tunes and just do what we kind of what we wanted to do, which was, you know, crazy fistfight music, so…
Stewart: (Laughing).

Were you afraid Greg Ginn would sue you also?
Robinson: Um, well, for one, you know. At this point, if we were not doing Chuck Dukowski tunes, I can't imagine why we would. But I'd be glad to have any discussion with him in a court room if it comes to that. I have not seen any more money from Serenade in Red, which I am pretty sure they (SST Records) sold.

You actually got money from Ginn for that Oxbow record SST released?
Robinson: I did, I did.

Maybe Ginn is getting an unfair rap for not paying people after all?
Robinson: No, no. We got a nice $5000 check from him, just because I'm insane about money, so… (laughing).

@NoiseyMusic