Scott Vogel of Terror Talks Recording Gang Starr, Erykah Badu, Leeway and More with Producer Tom Soares

Soares recording Terror.

You gotta give credit where credit is due, and usually the least credited person is the guy behind the guy. In this case, that man is Tom Soares. The producer/engineer/studio whiz is not only responsible for being behind the board for Terror's new album The Twenty-Fifth Hour, but also efforts by Britney Spears, Erykah Badu, Method Man & Redman, New Kids on the Block, a zillion other pop acts, and utter classics like Leeway's Born to Expire, Judge's Bringin' It Down, Merauder's Master Killer, and too many others to count.

We had Terror's frontman Scott Vogel talk to the great Tom Soares about his career and memories of working on some of these classic efforts. The results are below.

Noisey: Where were you born and what are some of your most vivid childhood memories?
Tom Soares: I was born in a little town called Bristol, Rhode Island, which is halfway between Providence and New Port. As a child, I vividly remember the fall season in Bristol. To be specific, one of my most vivid memories are of Halloween. I remember raking the leaves in our yard on cold, cloudy days. I thoroughly enjoyed taking the leaves and putting them in white cloths to make ghost heads for decoration. We would use smashed purple berries to make the ghosts look as if they were bleeding from their eyes. I always thought that our Halloween decorations were cool, yet simple.

Another vivid memory was of our family going to Horseneck Beach in Westport, Massachusetts. My parents would stop to get a bucket of Kentucky Fried Chicken and I would spend the entire day in the water, minus a lunch break. I loved being in the water and. I would stay in the water so long my skin would favor a prune once it was time to leave and return home.

When is the first time you remember hearing music that grabbed a hold of you and stirred up some emotion in you?
Music- I have always loved music since I could remember. As a child, my siblings and I would ride in the way back of our family station wagon and sing songs that I never knew who the artists were at the time. (Some examples are: The Beatles, Beach Boys and Cream). My first single was "Tears of a Clown" by Smokey Robinson. My second single was "Hurdy Gurdy Man" by Donovan. I played both of those singles repetitively. I wore those singles out until they wouldn't play any longer.

When did you decide that you would pursue a career in recording bands?
I decided to pursue a career in recording during the time that my sister was a recording engineer back in 1973. I enjoyed going to the studio to just hang out. My first day working in the studio was officially March 26, 1974. There was an old Skully sixteen-track two-inch tape recorder that wouldn't stay aligned more than an hour at a time. There were no computer location devices, just a simple tape counter on the front of the deck.

Did you learn from someone that mentored you or did you go to school? How did you get your start? How did you end up at the legendary Normandy Sounds Studio in Rhode Island?
Well, I spent days on end watching my sister as a recording engineer. I would clean the bathrooms and help set-up microphones for sessions. I've had my share of a crappy beginning in the music industry. Eventually, my sister decided to stop pursuing her career as a recording engineer. Thereafter, the owner of the studio (Normandy Sound) asked me if I wanted to accept the position as a full time assistant. At the time I was employed as an Auto Repair Technician during the day and working by night at the studio. Eventually, I had to make a decision between being an Auto Technician and full time Assistant. As a technician, I made approximately $500.00 a week at sixteen years old. I juggled both jobs until my boss at the body shop told me, "Tom, I am not going to fire you but you are going to have to make a choice between the two jobs." His exact words were, "Don't be an auto technician!" I decide to take the opportunity at Normandy Sounds under the leadership of Phil Greene. This was the beginning of my forty-year career. I remember accepting the job for absolutely no pay. Back then I would make cassette copies and I was compensated only forty dollars a week. I accepted a pay cut for a passion. My education was stemmed from the "School of Hard Knocks." I spent endless hours in the studio learning everything that I needed to know. I spent four years as an assistant learning how to mic things and other technical aspects. I would sit at the patch bay asking, "When will it be my turn?" The engineer would just make me sit there making patches and following him back and forth from the recording to the control-room. I would ask, "When can I learn the board?" Finally he said to me "You already know the board. If you understand the patch-bay, you understand signal flow". His quote was, "What you need to learn is out there, not in here. If it's a shitty sound, this console will just make it a shitty sound with more bass or treble". Going to school and spending a countless amount of money for someone to tell you that you are a recording engineer is a rip-off and a waste of fucking money. The recording industry doesn't work that way, never has, never will.

In 1986 or 1987 you worked with Leeway on one of my favorite records ever Born To Expire how did this come about? Was this your first experience working with a hardcore band?
Born To Expire came about because I had previously worked with a band from Boston, called Wargasm. They were signed to Chris Williamson at Rock Hotel Records. When Chris heard the album that I did for Wargasm, he was impressed and asked me to do the album Born To Expire. Yes, the band, Leeway was my first experience with the New York hardcore scene. The sound of that recording is amazing. Today it still sounds perfect. What do you remember most about this session about the Leeway guys and how did your touch on this record make it so great?
Chris Williamson was the producer. He came in with a vision of how he wanted to make the band sound. I remember him saying, "Tom, this album is about the drums, guitar and the guy singing the song." "You need to get me 'THE' hardcore guitar sound." As a result, I developed this technique called, "Amp Cabin." This was a technique that I used on all of the hardcore albums that I ever recorded. It was a configuration of four marshall cabinets, two straight, and two slanted. With Leeway, I believe he had Marshall and Laney heads. Today, I am still the only person who understands how the technique actually works.

It was the Leeway guy's first album, so they were babes in the woods. They listened to everything that Chris and I said which allowed them the freedom to be hardcore kids. Consequently, the album comes across raw and sincere, the way that hardcore should be but with a sophisticated produced sound. Some people say, "there isn't enough bass on the album" - that was a conscious decision made by Chris Williamson to feature AJ's guitar skills. He really wanted the album to rip.

I remember them being easy to work with. They were new to the studio so they were too busy enjoying the experience to have egos. I hear tones very well. My ability to align harmonics is, in my opinion, a gift from God. I see it in my head like a spectrograph. Then I pick which instrument is going to fill the spot. This way, no instruments are stepping on each other making for a huge sound, like an orchestra is arranged. Obviously, it worked out fine.

I have been told that when that record was heard by a lot of Leeway peers back in NY, many of them immediately wanted to work with you. Do you recall getting a lot of interest from NY bands then?
Yes, the phone definitely started ringing, but it wasn't until the Cromags and Sick Of It All, when the phone started to ring off the hook with bands like Scatterbrain, 247-Spyz, etc.

In the 80's and the early 90's you recorded and mixed what a lot of people, like me, would call their favorite bands ever. Judge, Killing Time, The Cromags, Sick Of It All; all huge parts of the hardcore history books. What was it do you think with the combination of the aggressive street level music and your style that clicked and worked so well?
Up until I started doing hardcore, most hardcore albums sounded as if they were recorded in someone's basement on an eight track. Granted, I understand that hardcore budgets were small and I don't think the studios were taking their music seriously. My early years at Normandy, we recorded a lot of fusion music, so I used that approach when I recorded hardcore. I couldn't understand why no one could get big sounds with high fidelity so I use the technique with Wargasm and it worked. Normandy was relatively inexpensive and there was an apartment upstairs, which allowed bands to come and take their time to get a good sounding record. Chris Williamson brought in The Cromags. They had spent many hours rehearsing before they came into the studio. I realize that pre-production was key. Hardcore budgets were vey small, therefore it was essential that the band was well rehearsed before entering into the studio.

All these guys had a lot to say. They wanted to be heard by the masses to get their messages across. I tried to help them do so but with a huge, more commercial sound. I know that sounds like a contradiction in the hardcore world, but it definitely got everyone's attention. It was kind of an accident. I hadn't listened to much hardcore before Leeway. I didn't know hardcore albums were supposed to sound like shit, LOL. I wouldn't even know how to make something sound like that. My ears can't hear that, and my brain can't process a finished album sounding like a demo. I had no idea these albums, Judge, Killing Time, Shelter, and many others, could influence such a massive amount of people, even today. I find it cool as shit, and an honor to have been a part of it.

As far as my style, I had an aggressive attitude as well. My zero tolerance approach for bullshit would ignite me to spend hours and hours recording and re-recording guitars to tighten performances. Eventually, I was given the name "Little Caesar" because most musicians thought I was an asshole but they never complained once they heard the final album.

When you were recording all these bands, could you tell and feel that you were creating something that would be so timeless and groundbreaking?
With Best Wishes, I definitely knew that was something incredibly special. Just the personalities of those guys and their playing ability was spine chilling to listen to. The anger that could get from their head to their instrument was truly something special. Being allowed to capture that was a privilege.

You worked on 3 Cromags albums. Best Wishes, Alpha Omega and Near Death Experience. Do you have any stories or memories from here serious with what many would call the greatest hardcore band ever?
Chris Williamson was the driving force behind Best Wishes. As I recall, there was a lot of conflict going on in the band. Chris really knew how to exploit that anger to get the best out of them. I don't believe they realized it at the time. They just thought he was a bit of a jerk, but in hindsight, he knew how to push their buttons to release all that hardcore anger. All I had to do was capture it on tape. As far as stories, what happened at Normandy stays at Normandy. All I can say without dissing any other band, is if they are not labeled the greatest hardcore band ever, they should be.

In 1991 and 92, you worked on a few projects with Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch. This is obviously a different sound from what you had been doing and I would assume a different level of record labels and management that you where dealing with at that time. How did this shift come about and how did you feel?
Hardcore was kind of dying out a bit. I was doing some work with New Kids On The Block when Donnie Walhberg asked me to mix Mark's stuff. It was a great opportunity. "Good Vibrations" became a number one hit that sold 2 million copies. That album also gave me my first Grammy nomination. As far as how I felt about hardcore going away, I did miss it, but we all have to move on at some point. Ironically, getting the chance to mix The 25th Hour album was such a refreshing change. It made me remember how much I loved recording those albums. The passion has returned!!

Through the 90's, you were still working with many NYHC bands like Merauder, Crown of Thorns, and Shelter. Were you becoming close friends with a lot of these guys and keeping track of what was going on with the hardcore scene or was it mostly more a business type thing?
I'm not sure how to answer that. I was in Rhode Island and all the bands I recorded were in NY. I did make a special friendship with Paul Niederauer from Scatterbrain (AKA) Ludichrist. We seemed to really click. We also made one of my most favorite albums. We spent a lot of time and effort making the Here Comes Trouble album. Consequently, we have remained great friends since. I also had as special liking for John Purcelly. I recorded him in a few bands. I wouldn't say it was strictly a business type thing, but it is how I make my living.

Switching gears a bit, also in the 90's you started branching out and working with a variety of high profile artists. NKOTB, Destiny's Child, The Roots, and Erykah Badu to name a few. Was this a refreshing change and did you move to NYC at the same point?
I'm a recording engineer. I was trained to be able to record just about anything. My experiences with different artists have only enriched and broadened my abilities. I was at the point at Normandy where my career was starting to stagnate. It was a great studio, but more mainstream artists weren't going to travel to Warren, RI to record so I made the decision to move to NYC. Working with artists like Erykah Badu and others, is not only refreshing, but just as much a privilege as working with my hardcore bro's. Let's face it, we are artists making music, that's all. Oh, and maybe make a couple of bucks while we're doing it.

Soares with Erykah Badu.

You also have worked with Capone and Noreaga, Papoose and Foxy Brown who I am all fans of. But one name that really jumps out at me on your resume is Guru, who has sadly past away. Gang Star is one of my all-time favorite groups and Guru's Jazzmatazz series is classic. What do you remember most about the session?
Erykah had called me to mix a song. I didn't realize Guru was producing until he showed up at the session. He was a friend of Donnie Walhberg, so I knew him from that. It was a song called "Hollywood Guru" - he was extremely talented and a great producer. I know this because all of the great producers I have worked with don't say much. They surround themselves with the talented people they hire and let them bring to the table what they have to offer. If he didn't like something he would express he wanted a change, but he didn't have demo-itis. He had the wisdom to listen to another perspective that maybe he hadn't thought of, and kept a broad mind before shooting it down. That's one of the things great producers do.

So now let's bring this up closer to the present…about 6 months ago, when Terror first contacted you. We had really wanted to get in touch with you and ask you to work on our new record, but the only contact we had was Googling you and finding you on some work related site like Linkedin. Nick emailed you and you guys talked a few times and then we kind of lost touch with you, what happened there?
I was in L.A last July starting Badu's newest album when I got this message on the site. We spoke a few times, but when I got back from LA, and tried to go to the site, it said Nick's IM was denied and removed from the site. We hadn't exchanged numbers by then, so I had no way to reach him. I'm not the greatest internet person. Then out of the blue, AJ from Leeway hooked up with me through Howie Abrams (we all know that hardcore legend) and asked if I was interested in mixing an album for a band from L.A. BAMMMM!! It hit me that it had to be you guys. That goes to show you how cool and close the hardcore community can be. So awesome. Nick and I started making arrangements to have me mix the album.

I really missed doing hardcore music, so I had a blast, but it presented two big challenges. You all were looking for a sound I had gotten in the analog domain and the other challenge was mixing in the box instead of an SSL, that all but one of my albums were recorded and mixed on. I had to experiment with different combos of all types of plug-ins Thank God for the UAD stuff!! Their plug-ins made it possible to emulate some of the warmth of the analog recordings you were used to hearing. I tried to remember things I did in the 80's from memory. That was the fun part, but also mind-boggling at the same time. I started hearing all those influences and a lot of specifics came back to me. Their references and influences you mention are awesome ones, but Terror is Terror. Your album sounds like you guys to me. I think we made a great album. Like I said, I had a blast mixing this album. The engineer who recorded it did a great job, which allowed me to mix and not fix all the tracks. I'd love to get back doing more albums like this again!

Is there anyone you had to throw out of the studio or you walked out on cause they were unprepared or too fucked up to work with?
Better not touch that question.

And last, but not least, out of all the NY hardcore records you were a part of, which one do you love the best?
You saved the hardest question for last…Let's see.. there are many. The first Sick Of It All album. Mantra by Shelter, Alpha Omega by the one and only, Older BudWiser by Gang Green, and of course you can't forget the great one, Bringing It Down by none other than the mighty, Judge.

In parting, there are many untold stories and several bands that I did not have the opportunity to mention. So I'd like to leave all the hardcore bands with a bit of advice imparted onto me by Paul Nieder from Ludichrist. Never break the three rules of heavy music:

RULE # 1 - KEEP IT HEAVY

RULE # 2 - BUT NOT TOO HEAVY

RULE # 3 - BUT HEAVY ENOUGH!!!!

Scott Vogel plays in Terror.