Dean Bein is the founder and head of True Panther Sounds, a New York label with San Francisco roots. Early on, True Panther was known as the home base of Girls, who stayed on the (now Matador) imprint from their first singles and EPs through their final full-length released last year. True Panther’s roster has grown significantly since the first Girls single. Their catalog now boasts releases from Delorean, King Krule, Teengirl Fantasy, Real Estate, and Trash Talk.When I spoke with Dean in Lower Manhattan last month, we talked about True Panther’s first release, how he pitches bands to sign with True Panther, and what it means for a label when you buy a record from Best Buy.How did the first True Panther release happen?
It was a seven-inch. I went to Oberlin College and it was really the most informal possible thing you could do. My best friend was trying to learn how to play guitar and we started a band to help him learn. We did a Cock Sparrer cover and wrote some stupid songs. We recorded it together on a four-track and we each put in 100 dollars. There were six of us in the band. We pressed the seven-inches, I silk-screened the covers, and we made 500. We booked a DIY tour up and down the West Coast [and played] house parties and punk clubs and all-ages venues and stuff. We learned how to do a website and we could sell them online, and we sold out of the seven-inches. We said we can either use this money to get our hundred dollars back, or we could put out another record. And we said, “Yeah, okay. Let’s do that.” And eventually everyone else lost interest.So you sold copies online too?
Oh yeah, PayPal and stuff.I feel like PayPal is huge for small labels.
Yeah, full revolutionary. I think PayPal has probably had that effect in every cottage industry. When I was in high school or even middle school, and you wanted to mail order records, you sent a self-addressed stamped envelope for a catalog. Then, they sent you a catalog. Then, you mailed them money, like cash, and you tried to hide it. Then you waited for months. And if nobody sent anything back, the best thing you could do—if it’s like a punk label—would be to write a letter to Maximumrocknroll and be like, “I just want to let everyone know about, this record label. I ordered a Quincy Punx seven-inch from their distro…and it never came.” The fact that you can instantly transfer cash is huge.How do you pitch a band to sign True Panther?
Before Matador—and labels like Kill Rock Stars or K paved the way for this—you split everything down the middle. There’s not a ton of budget, you pay for the manufacturing, there are no contracts. The way you pitch it is: I will invest the money to make it. Ideally, you have some sort of distribution network to sell it.It’s very transparent and very unprofessional. The label should be an honest and genuine representation of what the artist wants. They should be willing to be their best advocate and fulfill their best vision for their artwork. That’s the pitch. You have to get along and understand one another.King Krule – “Rock Bottom”Do you do a cost-benefit analysis before you plan a release?
You definitely do. Scale has been eternally important for me. I think a record can be successful if you sell 500 copies, or 5,000 copies, or 50,000 copies, so long as it’s scaled properly.It’s tough times; not everybody has the privilege of having the support of a much bigger entity. Not everyone can invest time and energy into something they really care about unless they think there’s a baseline of sales it can make. This isn’t to knock any labels that are run by people with huge trust funds, because there are a million things that rich people could spend their money on that are worse than releasing good music.Do you have a philosophy about file sharing?
I think it’s a fact of life. Spotify is a good example of a pragmatic way to fight file sharing. It allows people to do exactly what they’re doing, but people are still being paid for their work, to a certain extent. I don’t think prosecuting people for file sharing is going to fix anything. At the same time, recorded music has a fundamental value.People who aren’t involved in the financial side of an artist’s life don’t understand that there are different types of exposure, and a lot of times people overstate the value of [file sharing].What would be an example of more effective exposure?There is more value in someone writing something thoughtful, coherent, and intelligent, than someone just putting up an entire album for download without any editorial, or any context, or anything at all, with no compensation to the artist. Especially if that person turns around and makes money off ads, and they’re just putting up the hard work of this person to get more visitors and more hits. That doesn’t sit with me. When people defend Megaupload or MediaFire, [they don’t realize] those are businesses that make millions of dollars off of advertising.Delorean – Real LoveHow does it affect True Panther when you release a single from a band like Trash Talk, and their next release is on a bigger label?Maybe it’ll sound naïve, but I feel lucky to be in a position to have a roster of artists I work with. And they’re long continuous relationships. I guess you could speculate, in a way, that that type of release helps the artist or the label, depending on which one people care more about at the moment. If Trash Talk had been a band that no one had ever heard of, perhaps putting out a record on True Panther would make people pay attention. What’s more the case is Trash Talk has a really loyal following, and maybe that reflects on how people see the label.The one-off releases are licenses, which is how more punk labels [operate]. I do not own the music. It’s a license for a set period of time.Do you see a major financial difference if someone buys a record from Amazon or an independent record store?
[Big stores] are getting squeezed, and that squeeze, they put on the labels. Because there are places where they’ve shut down all the mom and pop stores, there are certain places where they can demand a better price point. Sometimes, a label will put a record in a Best Buy or a Target, not at a loss necessarily, but not at a profit. Just to get the profile and to have it there, and maybe have a sales history they can take back to the store. It depends on the size of the label too. There are a number of distributors that do a fantastic job for independent labels. Matador Direct is one of them, Secretly Canadian, Forced Exposure. They eat a lot of the overhead costs for the labels that people don’t think about—shipping, packaging. They’ll swallow a lot of those expenses. So that dollar, or 15 percent or 10 percent distribution fee a label pays to them is worth it.If you don’t have distribution, but you have a PayPal link, or a BandCamp, and you’re putting up a limited edition record for sale, the ability to see immediate cash in your account that you can invest in another recording, for a small company, means everything.From a label perspective, what’s the best way for someone to buy a True Panther release?
Directly from the label, I guess. Truthfully, in pure economic terms that’s the truth. But the best way to buy a piece of music is from an independent record store. The existence of record stores in our communities fosters a sense of value among musicians and artists. It’s a physical place for our music. It’s not just a pure economic effect, the ability of these stores to exist as a place for people to hang out and talk about music and discover new things. That’s important for the label, just as it is for the store or the artist.@patt_mutrino
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It was a seven-inch. I went to Oberlin College and it was really the most informal possible thing you could do. My best friend was trying to learn how to play guitar and we started a band to help him learn. We did a Cock Sparrer cover and wrote some stupid songs. We recorded it together on a four-track and we each put in 100 dollars. There were six of us in the band. We pressed the seven-inches, I silk-screened the covers, and we made 500. We booked a DIY tour up and down the West Coast [and played] house parties and punk clubs and all-ages venues and stuff. We learned how to do a website and we could sell them online, and we sold out of the seven-inches. We said we can either use this money to get our hundred dollars back, or we could put out another record. And we said, “Yeah, okay. Let’s do that.” And eventually everyone else lost interest.So you sold copies online too?
Oh yeah, PayPal and stuff.I feel like PayPal is huge for small labels.
Yeah, full revolutionary. I think PayPal has probably had that effect in every cottage industry. When I was in high school or even middle school, and you wanted to mail order records, you sent a self-addressed stamped envelope for a catalog. Then, they sent you a catalog. Then, you mailed them money, like cash, and you tried to hide it. Then you waited for months. And if nobody sent anything back, the best thing you could do—if it’s like a punk label—would be to write a letter to Maximumrocknroll and be like, “I just want to let everyone know about, this record label. I ordered a Quincy Punx seven-inch from their distro…and it never came.” The fact that you can instantly transfer cash is huge.
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Before Matador—and labels like Kill Rock Stars or K paved the way for this—you split everything down the middle. There’s not a ton of budget, you pay for the manufacturing, there are no contracts. The way you pitch it is: I will invest the money to make it. Ideally, you have some sort of distribution network to sell it.It’s very transparent and very unprofessional. The label should be an honest and genuine representation of what the artist wants. They should be willing to be their best advocate and fulfill their best vision for their artwork. That’s the pitch. You have to get along and understand one another.King Krule – “Rock Bottom”Do you do a cost-benefit analysis before you plan a release?
You definitely do. Scale has been eternally important for me. I think a record can be successful if you sell 500 copies, or 5,000 copies, or 50,000 copies, so long as it’s scaled properly.It’s tough times; not everybody has the privilege of having the support of a much bigger entity. Not everyone can invest time and energy into something they really care about unless they think there’s a baseline of sales it can make. This isn’t to knock any labels that are run by people with huge trust funds, because there are a million things that rich people could spend their money on that are worse than releasing good music.Do you have a philosophy about file sharing?
I think it’s a fact of life. Spotify is a good example of a pragmatic way to fight file sharing. It allows people to do exactly what they’re doing, but people are still being paid for their work, to a certain extent. I don’t think prosecuting people for file sharing is going to fix anything. At the same time, recorded music has a fundamental value.
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[Big stores] are getting squeezed, and that squeeze, they put on the labels. Because there are places where they’ve shut down all the mom and pop stores, there are certain places where they can demand a better price point. Sometimes, a label will put a record in a Best Buy or a Target, not at a loss necessarily, but not at a profit. Just to get the profile and to have it there, and maybe have a sales history they can take back to the store. It depends on the size of the label too. There are a number of distributors that do a fantastic job for independent labels. Matador Direct is one of them, Secretly Canadian, Forced Exposure. They eat a lot of the overhead costs for the labels that people don’t think about—shipping, packaging. They’ll swallow a lot of those expenses. So that dollar, or 15 percent or 10 percent distribution fee a label pays to them is worth it.If you don’t have distribution, but you have a PayPal link, or a BandCamp, and you’re putting up a limited edition record for sale, the ability to see immediate cash in your account that you can invest in another recording, for a small company, means everything.From a label perspective, what’s the best way for someone to buy a True Panther release?
Directly from the label, I guess. Truthfully, in pure economic terms that’s the truth. But the best way to buy a piece of music is from an independent record store. The existence of record stores in our communities fosters a sense of value among musicians and artists. It’s a physical place for our music. It’s not just a pure economic effect, the ability of these stores to exist as a place for people to hang out and talk about music and discover new things. That’s important for the label, just as it is for the store or the artist.@patt_mutrino